Monday, October 22, 2007

Rotten, rebellious teen

One of the scriptures I taught my daughter at a very early age – 2 maybe – was Col 3:20, “Children obey your parents in all things, for this is well-pleasing unto the Lord.” After teaching the verse and concept, I would ask – particularly at a moment of disobedience- “Olivia, what it your job?” and she would answer, “to obey”. Then I would ask, “how do you know that is your job?”. She would answer, “because God says”. I would ask how she knew that God wanted her to obey and she would respond by quoting the verse. The next question would be, “what does it mean to obey?” The rote answer was, “to do what mommy and daddy ask me to do and to do it quickly, cheerfully and completely”. I might add that one of the nicknames given to her by her older siblings was, by the way, "poky puppy" after a children's book they had!

The natural progression of training becomes evident with the next question as I asked, “did you obey mommy?” And so on we would go with training. As she grew older, the answer sometimes came out with an eye roll, but it came out because it had been worked in, and she knew she was busted. I think that, to this day, although she has shifted into an adult mode of obeying God without having me in between, I could ask her the same question and still get that answer, and it makes me happy.

I was studying Phil 2:12,13 this morning and it brought memories of little Olivia to mind and the concept of what obedience really means. “So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.” I was struck by the fact that just like training my child to obey, my job also is to obey – both “in the presence or absence” of someone watching and correcting. I was struck even more by the fact that it was God’s job, not mine, to cause me both to will to, as well as to actually do what it is that pleases Him. Just like the example of training a child, the child's job is to obey, the parent's job is to move the child to a point in training where obedience is a result of love for and trust in the parent. Only then does compliance become true obedience.

Sometimes I think I am still a rebellious child, a rotten, rebellious teen. Even compliance is hard, not to mention true obedience – it’s not quick, I’m not cheerful and certainly, since it is grudging, I am not completely yielded. I have begun to really question the underlying motives of my heart, trying to decide if this is my basic personality, that I am generally more rebellious than others, or if there is something, some issue, that just trips me up. Although it doesn't happen often, I watched myself throw a spiritual temper tantrum this summer. It was rather like throwing things against the wall, knowing that throwing is totally against the rules, and realizing that I was breaking things I needed to cherish. All the while, I remember watching, just as my kids did, for the parent’s reaction and response. I actually remember asking in anger, “now that you see how horrible I really am, do you still love me?” I was surprised by my own willfulness, throwing my fist in the air at God and demanding, in the midst of sin, to know if He would love me no matter what.

Ted's comment on the last blog, "In cases in which the baby doesn't [bond to the mother] because the mother is too busy early on, I wonder if there is a disconnect already setting in by the time the baby is at the age where it should be weaned", made me wonder. Perhaps rather than basic, ongoing rebellion, the temper tantrums come because, in some areas of my life, I still am not truly a weaned babe. Perhaps, as I have found to so often be the case for me, it is due to a lack of trust in God; surely I do not really know His character well, else I would not fear that He would let me down. I think I have Him confused with someone else and I need to learn a deeper lesson about His character! It’s an interesting question to ponder.

But, the take home and encouraging message was that God is the parent. It is His job, not mine, to both teach me to both will and work what pleases Him; my job is simply to obey.

Anyone recognize this pattern in their own lives or am I the only rebellious one out here? Any takers?
By the way, at the end of the summer, I can say that God definitively said, "Yes"!

17 comments:

bluemountainmama said...

lots of good ponderings here.... much to 'chew' over. i really like the verses you brought up in phillipians...the pastor of a church in NC that i go to when i'm visiting my parents spoke on it this summer. it is actually quite a relief, knowing God is the one that 'is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure', like you mentioned. and that we are constantly working out our salvation..... it is a journey. i get frustrated with myself when i mess up, and its a good reminder to know that we are connstantly working out this Christian walk and won't be perfected until we meet our maker....

Ted M. Gossard said...

Susan,
Yes. I definitely struggle. I think I've met an issue and am obeying, but then I'm hit with a wave of wanting my own way. And I feel buried underneath it. But thank God for his ongoing grace in Jesus, in spite of that and in spite of me. In his love, as you say, he keeps bringing me back. And he works in us that which is pleasing in his sight (Hebrews) as well as the will and ability to do what pleases him.

So like you so well say, here, we must simply obey. And an obedience to a great and good and loving Parent.

And because of this and only because of it, there's hope in Jesus for us all.

Good words to us; thanks!

Martin Stickland said...

Howdy doody dandy!

Hello there Sue, I hope you are okay, I too have been so busy recently but now my PC is back up and running I can my blogging is back to normal now.

My thoughts are with those poor people in California, it is front page headline news over here in the UK. I do hope that they get the fires under control.

Have a good day Sue.

Kind regards

Martin

Ted M. Gossard said...

I came to see if you've posted anything new, so since you haven't I reread this post. It's a good one, too, and good to reread.

To pick up on the bonding part, I think, even though truth about God is important, we're thinking more here in terms of relational and experiential. I really need to come to know God more and more as God is revealed to us in Scripture and see that more and more worked into my life, actually, as Eugene Peterson points out in his book, "Eat This Book," finding my story with all its foibles and even follies in God's Story. God the leading actor and end, not any of us. But in that we finding something far greater and grander, and taking us in as we are, warts and all.

So I do need to keep on working on the bonding with God. And I need to do so as one with God and one with the people of God in Jesus. This is all part of the story, and in that of what God is up to.

Thanks for bringing that up, and helping us think on that.

Ted M. Gossard said...

Reading reminded me of this last commment I left. And I want to say that while I stand on that, I want to add that I'm not saying that what we believe about God and what we believe, period isn't important, because it surely is. We have to receive the revelation of God as we have it from God's word, Scripture, and as it comes through God's Word: Jesus.

Martin Stickland said...

Calm down or go up to your room! you in a tantrum? I cannot imagine that sweet little face in the photo throwing her rattle out of her pram! .... or then again?

Halfmom, AKA, Susan said...

bluemountain - yes, it is a relief to me that it is God who is at work and not me - it keeps me from feeling quite so much like I'm the most hopefuless human being on the planet when it comes to sanctification! It is also comforting to remember that He has promised to continue what He started and not to stop or quite on me until He is finished.

Yes Martin, I'm afraid that I'm quite capable of not only throwing a temper tantrum, but other things as well. Generally, it's words I'm throwing - with my fist in the air accusing God of being less than who He is - and more like who I am. Not a very pretty sight!

Ted, good comments all - not sure where to start. I think sometimes the problem is that I don't even realize what false ideas I have about God's character - sometimes I don't even realize what is happening, I just know I'm down or angry or afraid. Then I have to start with a "feeling" and then track back to scripture to see if what I feel measures up to truth, especially when it concerns God's character - which it almost never is - so I have to correct my theology and then work it back into my life correctly - it's a really slow process for me!

Every Square Inch said...

There are many ways we rebel...and disobey...not always by throwing a tantrum. Just like a child becomes more "sophisticated"in their disobedience when they get older...we can sometimes express the same disobedience in subtle ways.

A kind of passive resistance which is not any better than outright tantrum throwing...that tends to be my problem

Ted M. Gossard said...

Susan,
Anything that is really life changing is over time and is a slow process. I know you know that; I just say it to let you know I know it.

Good way of doing it, though.

Halfmom, AKA, Susan said...

ESI - you're funny! A sullen child you are? Not me, openly rebellious -not something anyone was going to miss - and over the years I've become glad of it because it makes it easier to see my rebellion. If I couldn't, it's surely obvious to others and they kindly (with permission, they are my best friends) point it out. What is hard though iwth my personality, is seeing pride in accomplishment - thinking you have something under control only to have it rear its head years later and bite you because you were not guarding what you considered an area of strength.

you're right Ted - it is a process and just when you think you've got one area "licked", then it jumps up and bites you in the behind again - just so you remember "oh what wretched man that I am who will deliver me?"

Ted M. Gossard said...

Susan,
I really struggle with the two nature thing. Many evangelical scholars today, including Douglas Moo is has the leading evangelical commentary on Romans (both the NICNT and the NIV Application Commentary) has changed his view from the more traditional two nature one to a view that I would prefer to side with, but he does so in a commendable, gracious Douglas Moo style.

Not that we don't struggle with sin, and not that we can't cry out with the Apostle in the words you quote. But the answer to the Law/Torah-oriented, Spirit-less complaints of Romans 7 is found in Romans 8.

And not that we can't fulfill the lust of the flesh if we don't walk in the Spirit. We're reminded that we're not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if the Spirit of Christ lives in us (Romans 8, I believe).

This two nature thing I think, even if true I think can be misapplied and even end up excusing us in our sinning.

Oh well, I've thought out loud here, and I know it's half-baked, and it is something I need to work on as to understanding, and then of course- living.

I do admit to being chagrined by what I see among Christians who are so strong on "eternal security" and think what they do in the end wont' matter. I don't find that resonating with the whole counsel of God. I'm not referring to you, Susan. I'll stop my baby prattle for now...

Ted M. Gossard said...

Well, this morning I'll add just a little more, though I need to get back into reading about this.

We're to ever put off the old self in Adam and put on the new self in Christ. I believe this is lifelong. We're a new creation in Christ. We're no longer in Adam but in Christ. We're light in the Lord, no longer in darkness; therefore we're to live that way.

The idea that we have two natures always at war with each other is not a good way Scripturally to express the struggle we do experience with sin.

At the same time those who differ on how to interpret Scripture on this, as in Romans 7 and context, Galatians 5, etc., still can end up with a healthy view on how to live the Christ-life, I believe. It's just that I've known Christians and was probably there myself, who think they're in a constant civil war, who are always in a struggling mode, when God tells us you're not there anymore, you're no longer in the flesh but in the Spirit....

Ted M. Gossard said...

I'm willing in blogging to put out thoughts that need work on, and to be wrong at times, so I ventured to put this forth, something I believe but really need to work through intellectually/exigetically more, as well as- from that, experientally.

Halfmom, AKA, Susan said...

oh Ted, you make me laugh - you're every bit as much a verbal processor as I am, I do believe - it just comes out in blog comments.

I have so very much to say about your comments that hasn't been thoroughly processed yet, it will have to wait until it becomes a real post - but I can say that I know that I am not at all who I was - my very nature is differnt. And yet, my flesh struggles against my spirit - so whether that makes it dicotomous still or not who knows - but it does make it difficult.

Ted M. Gossard said...

Susan,
Interesting- yes, I'm a thinker ad nauseum, so sometimes I try to turn it off in various ways, though thankfully not in bad ways, I do believe. But it's who I am. So I have to develop better listening and more silence before God, I do believe.

As to processing, okay, yeah, I do that all the time too, though I don't take my conclusions as seriously as I used to, and am open for correction or refinement, or at least always try to be.

Yes, I think I'm a completely different person than I was before conversion, and I think than I was even five years ago (would be my guess) towards God and his will. Yet I do struggle, as you can see in my post for Saturday. So I appreciate the insight you bring out here on your comment.

Rudy said...

“to do what mommy and daddy ask me to do and to do it quickly, cheerfully and completely”

Your daughter could actually say those words when she was 2? I'm impressed!

Other than repeating these phrases over and over again to my 2 year old, what else can I do to actually convince her to obey? My daughter is very stubborn. Much like her old man.

Rudy said...

Susan,

Thanks for your advice on the book by Ted Tripp. However, from Amazon's user reviews, I did find a few parents who disagree on his writing/methods. You can read them
here
. That concerns me a little. Nevertheless, I will attempt to read it and check his references.

God Bless.