A favorite quote from Tozer - it speaks so very clearly to those I seek out, whether by reading or hearing, those who know Him most intimately and explain it to me the most clearly.
Toward anything like thorough scholarship I make no claim. I am not an authority on any man's teaching; I have never tried to be. I take my help where I find it and set my heart to graze where the pastures are greenest. Only one stipulation do I make: my teacher must know God, as Carlyle said, "otherwise than by hearsay," and Christ must be all in all to him. If a man have only correct doctrine to offer me I am sure to slip out at the first intermission to seek the company of someone who has seen for himself how lovely is the face of Him who is the Rose of Sharon and the Lily of the Valley. Such a man can help me, and no one else can.
AW Tozer "God's Pursuit of Man", xiv.
2 comments:
30 comments:
Ted M. Gossard said...
I have to agree. I have to agree. We need to sit at the feet of those who sit at Jesus' feet.
This also reminds me of the reality and life in the Body of Christ. We think too much in terms of learning from one leader, usually a man, a pastor in churches. Instead we need to think more, or also in terms of learning- as in giving and receiving from each other in Christ's Body through the Spirit, with the special gifts the Spririt gives us for the occasion. But for those gifts to do good, we need to be growing Christians, growing in our maturity and personal knowing of Christ.
So Tozer's words, as usual ring true. Good thought.
May 2, 2009 9:43 PM
Ted M. Gossard said...
by the way, I wanted to say the help of the gifts in the Body is in speaking and serving gifts, I believe. I know you know all this, but just sharing my thought here. But a good thought from Tozer and reminder that works both ways.
May 2, 2009 9:45 PM
Litl-Luther said...
Good quote.
One sentence particularly caught my eye though: "my teacher must know God." I completely agree, but it raises important issues. For if "my” teacher(s) must know God, how about the teachers of my children? It raises issues, for one, whether or not Christian parents should send their children to Public Schools, where not only will most of their teachers not know God; they will sometimes teach our children godless things, which oppose belief in God.
Just a though Tozer's quote rose in my mind.
May 2, 2009 10:17 PM
lorenzothellama said...
Luther, by the time children go to school they should have a grounding in their parent's faith, be whatever.
Hello Susan, hope you are well!
today's word is mingwoon. Maybe I will suggest that for a name for one of my two prospective grandchildren!
May 3, 2009 2:15 AM
HALFMOM said...
LlamaTWO prospective grandchildren? Both daughters??
Actually Ted, I'm not quite sure what you mean in "speaking and serving gifts". It seems like to me that we need all the gifts at the same time in the same body for ministry to people to be really effective?
LutlLuther Not enough time to speak in detail on public versus other forms of schooling, but I have a daughter that went through public school. Her theology is sound but she didn't learn it there. I made sure she had sound teachers just as I tried to make sure she had sound teachers for "academic" instruction. I think, though, that it depends on the child, the parent and the situation.
May 3, 2009 8:07 AM
donsands said...
The Lord has His undershepherds for sure. They will be honest and humble, full of grace, and love the truth.
They will be flawed as well. But their love for Christ and His Word will be evident.
Their love for their family, the Church, lost unbelievers, and even enemies of the Cross, will be evident as well.
They are ensamples to the flock.
Tozer was a great teacher, but he was flawed as well.
Jesus is the only true Teacher, but He does have His own teachers, whom He has called and ordained.
Then there are the false shepherds; the hirelings. These do not ward off the wolves as the true shepherds do.
And there are wolves in sheepsclothing as well.
The kingdom of God on Earth is a perpetual battle for the truth. God's shepherds tending, feeding, and protecting the His beloved sheep.
May 3, 2009 11:52 AM
Ted M. Gossard said...
"Actually Ted, I'm not quite sure what you mean in "speaking and serving gifts". It seems like to me that we need all the gifts at the same time in the same body for ministry to people to be really effective?"
Susan,
I meant what you said, I think. Actually there are as many gifts as there are people. From Scripture in a broad categorical way we might classify them as simply speaking and serving gifts. Prophecy, healings, faith, helps/serving, administration, etc., would be in serving gifts, tongues (unless with interpretation) being excluded but for personal edification I take it (1 Cor 14). Peter seems to be making this distinction of speaking and serving gifts here. I think that's where I picked it up from, probably reinforced in reading.
An interesting book I have, but I'm not sure it really lives up to its title, by Tozer is Tragedy in the Church: The Missing Gifts. Here's a download of it.
I'm not at all trying to downplay the importance of undershepherds, and indeed apostles, prophets, evangelists and pastor-teachers (I take it) are all there to equip Christ's Body, to help each find their gifts, and in maturity practice them for the good of all. (Ephesians 4)
Hopefully I'm not missing your point in my answer here.
May 3, 2009 5:27 PM
Ted M. Gossard said...
I was going to add something more in line with my original second comment, but I'm off track from your post.
Your post hit me good (I needed it!), and this morning I opened up a book to get my quote of the week on my blog and came up with this one. Then in church this morning we had a powerful sermon from Jack (here). I'd encourage anyone to listen to it. I just sensed the Spirit powerfully in it, bringing home to me the same point. (it may not seem that it does when first hearing it, but it does.)
So this is a good word for me to work on knowing Christ better, not substituting ANYTHING in place of the Bread of life as the source of nourishment. Not working for food that spoils.
May 3, 2009 5:52 PM
simon said...
I do not want my children taught by anyone of any faith, blindly brainwashing them into cults that have no place in our culture.
ban the lot I say..
I think a teacher with no religeous connections but who is qualified to teach and is the best at it is what is required.
I sent my first three children to a Christian school- where they were So far behind the state school system average, they required coaching to bring them up to speed. So I took them out...
I am ashamed of sending them to such a low life institution, what a mistake that was....
the teachers were too busy teaching christ and not what is really required in life..
May 4, 2009 1:39 AM
Ted M. Gossard said...
Simon,
We have found just the opposite where I live (Grand Rapids, Michigan). Often it's the Christian run schools which are ahead of the public schools, in fact that's more true here than not.
You put up a false dichotomy here. But something fundamentalists of all kinds do all the time, with all due respect to them all. It should not be a question of either/or, but and/both. From what can be observed, faith and religion is an important, undeniable part of what it means to be human. A major part of the foundation and beginning of modern science was Christianity. Christianity teaches that God's world is to be studied, that humans are stewards or caretakers of it, and that it is not a waste of time at all to study any of God's works in creation.
Also I've known homeschool kids who left everyone in the dust due both to their excellent education they received at home, and their gifting. And who love Jesus, but are advanced over me in what they know and will accomplish in life.
And here's one example open to all (and especially here) of how Christianity and knowledge are not antithetical.
Of course we all know Susan as another good example of what I'm saying here.
Actually I believe life make more sense when you bring Christ into the picture. That is how it all comes together both now and in the end. Why people aspire to love, truth, something more than the physical eye can see. I believe a proper faith in Jesus can help one use their minds better, or just as good as any other person.
But in the end, I say let the world see Christ and the cross as foolishness. We were singing "The Old Rugged Cross" yesterday at the nursing home. I love that cross, where the Dearest and Best, for a world of lost sinners was slain. So I'll cherish, yes I'll cherish that old rugged cross. And by grace I/we in Jesus will exchange it someday for a crown.
I love to learn from anyone. But my reason for living is found in Jesus and no where else.
May 4, 2009 3:23 AM
Ted M. Gossard said...
You know, even the prayer I posted yesterday was all about knowing the Good Shepherd. Reminds me of Paul's words: "I want to know Christ—yes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death" (Philippians 3:10).
May 4, 2009 4:01 AM
Litl-Luther said...
Simon,
So you would ban anyone from teaching children in public schools who believes in God? Sounds rather racist and prejudicious, doesn't it? People of faith aren't fit to teach but atheists are?? Do you believe atheists are somehow superior intellectually and people of faith are inferior?
May 4, 2009 5:46 AM
Litl-Luther said...
...if you wonder why I would even mention "racism" it is because I believe it is a fitting term, for Christians are "a nation". We are a family by blood, with the same Father, and our citizenship is in Heaven. (1 Peter 2:9; Phil. 3:20)
May 4, 2009 6:16 AM
donsands said...
"I do not want my children taught by anyone of any faith, blindly brainwashing them into cults that have no place in our culture."
Some of the faith universities are incredible. Kings College in Oxford. Princeton. Notre Dame. These all have great prestige. And they all have magnificient chapels.
In this world we have the truth, and in the midst of the truth, there are many half truths, and lies as well.
Jesus, when here on earth said, "I am the truth."
Bold statement, to say the least. If one stays close to Jesus, and His words, and His words all connect with the Scriptures, then one can know the truth, and be set free from all the cults, and false assumptions in this world.
May 4, 2009 8:32 AM
Craver Vii said...
Sure, it is sensible to be discerning about selecting one's teachers. I would not be mentored in matters of faith by someone who did not know the Lord. Still, I find that good lessons sometimes come from the most unlikely sources. I put a lot of weight in a person's worldview and home school my children, but teach them not to be so dogmatic that they automatically and completely disregard everything that comes from someone who is not Christian.
May 4, 2009 4:20 PM
L.L. Barkat said...
This:
I take my help where I find it.
To be willing to hear from the small things, the quiet things, the hidden things... to take help wherever we find it... this is good...
May 4, 2009 7:41 PM
Halfmom, AKA, Susan said...
Hi LL - I actually find digging in the dirt to be quite a quiet time for listening - but I guess Tozer had in mind some speaking other than the breeze...
I'm sorry our new friend removed her comment - do come back. I thought your comment was quite nice!!
May 4, 2009 11:16 PM
simon said...
yes I am a racist.. I believe in natural selection...( now THAT should get you going) ;o)
I do not believe anyone who is a teacher should have the right to put forward their beliefs in a school environment.
I went to a church school, sang in a cathedral choir...
May 4, 2009 11:18 PM
lorenzothellama said...
Luther, I don't think Simon said he wouldn't want anyone who believed in God teaching his children. I think he said he didn't want them teaching them about God. Quite a difference.
Simon: I believe in natural selection too. All people are attracted to fanciable people, as animals are. My last dog had tremendous sex appeal, and all male dogs wanted to be with her. Good job she was spayed.
May 5, 2009 5:29 AM
Halfmom, AKA, Susan said...
I understand what you mean Simon.
I would love to have you teach my children (even though they're grown they still love learning) singing, or even have them with you to learn on your wonderful outback treks (I love it when you and the boys take one of those treks and you post pictures). I would be so happy to have my children taught by you this way.
But how can we teach and who we are, which includes our theology, not come out in some way? I think it is a very difficult thing to "hide" even when you are doing you best to just "teach the material". You and I look at the wonderful things around us, the bush and flowers and birds and sky and rocks and take them in with such joy, and yet our very views on how they all got here color what we think of them so very much.
I think it so much better to have them taught by whomever is the best teacher (which is not always the most knowledgeable person - some of those are dry as dust!) and then discuss with them afterwards to make sure they've gotten the information "in focus".
May 5, 2009 9:12 AM
simon said...
yes- the best teacher for the task or subject at hand. Being a believer does not give you higher authority or knowledge in an area.
I thank you for the compliment.. btw I lost your address in which to send my cds....if you email me again I will pop them in the post...
eg i would not want Don sands teaching me science, but perhaps if I was to learn about the history of christ he might have expertise inthat field ( as an example only Don..)
May 5, 2009 6:50 PM
Halfmom, AKA, Susan said...
Agreed Simon - the best for the job. I think where it's a problem for me is that some people don't realize that their teaching is full of theology - even if it is atheos.
I just sent you an email too - looking forward to a new issue of "the life and time of Simon"
May 5, 2009 8:22 PM
Litl-Luther said...
I think I agree with the gist of all the recent comments from you guys. And I would like to stress one of Susan's points: that it is terribly difficult, if not impossible, to "hide" who you are, and why should teachers even have to do that? If Christian teachers should keep their beliefs completely out of the classroom, why shouldn't the atheist teacher keep his anti-god beliefs just as much out of the classroom? If one should be fired for having faith and expressing it, one without faith who expresses it should be fired just as quickly.
But it is impossible to hide who you are. If I was teaching a secular course on American history, for example, I can't get around the fact how that nation started with men of faith. Moreover, my entire identity as a person is in Christ. How can you remove the teacher's whole identity from the classroom?
May 5, 2009 9:41 PM
Litl-Luther said...
In Don Sands' defense:
Don is one of the greatest men on planet earth today. He is not only a great man of God, a man of faith and a man of integrity; he is also a good man, a man who always strives to encourage others. I'm not saying he should be teaching science. All I am stressing is that everyone of us who reads this blog would be thoroughly blessed if we had the privilege of Don Sands teaching our children or teaching us.
Word Verification: nepale
So close to "Nepal" I had to include it!
May 5, 2009 9:51 PM
donsands said...
Simon is spot on about me and science.
I hated physical science & biology, and barely passed. I did disect a frog fairly well though. I suppose I liked being able to cut the frog open.
Actually, if i could do it over, I'd try harder to be a better student. I was a bit of a rebel back in high school. And on into college, where I simply dropped out.
Thanks for those humbling words Triston. There are many faults in my life brother. Christ has been good to me. And you and I go back quite a few years Litl-Luther. A lot of water under the bridge my friend.
The thing we need watch out about knowledge is that it can puff us up, but love never does (1 Corinthians 8:1). Love builds us up. And so knowledge is good, and we need it, and we need to teach others as well, but love is the greatest of all things.
May 6, 2009 8:41 AM
Craver Vii said...
As a child, I believed that the daily papers and television newscasts were completely objective. Is it not obvious to everyone here that a presenter's worldview is almost impossible to cloak?
May 6, 2009 11:10 AM
Ted M. Gossard said...
The greatest revelation I had as a very young Christian my first year at Ft Wayne Bible College is just how little I know. The more you learn, the more knowledge, the more you realize you don't know. And that means humility.
I've known people who think they have all the answers, but time and experience change that.
I believe truth is inherently meant to be relational. And it is found essentially in a person- Jesus. Only in Jesus do all things come together and find their true meaning and place.
So I'm more than glad to learn from anyone at all, period. Because I know whatever truth there is is really of and from God. And finds its real meaning in him -and moving towards the end of the story, or the goal of all things, in Christ.
I do find strength in Scripture. In Jeremiah now. Love Jeremiah for some reason. Quite a difficult book in a lot of ways, reflecting the realism we find in life, I guess.
May 6, 2009 4:39 PM
Halfmom, AKA, Susan said...
I agree with you Ted - Jeremiah is a wonderful book!
I also find great comfort in learning about Jesus from scripture.
May 6, 2009 10:01 PM
Litl-Luther said...
I was just looking at Jeremiah, too. It is neat to put the history together. I'm preparing for preaching this coming Sunday on Daniel 5 (the writing on the wall passage). Jeremiah was an old man when Daniel, as a teenager, was taken into captivity in Babylon. Now as an old man, Daniel interprets the writing on the wall to Belshazzar (the Grandson of Nebuchadnezzar) that his time is up.
How Jeremiah fits into this historical narrative is that he had prophesied many years earlier (Jer. 27:5-7) that God would give dominion over the nations to Nebuchadnezzar, as well as to his son and "to his son's son" (i.e. Belshazzar), and then it would be taken from him. It is just so cool how it all fits together!
May 7, 2009 12:04 AM
Ted M. Gossard said...
"It is just so cool how it all fits together!"
Amen, Triston!
Yes, Susan. That was kind of brought home to me in a new way in "Sitting at the Feet of Rabbi Jesus: How the Jewishness of Jesus Can Transform Your Faith", a book I am almost finished reading. An interesting and edifying book. But it is great to see and work on understanding just how Jesus is a fulfillment of Scripture.
May 7, 2009 2:53 AM
thank you for your visit and comment.
Love
n
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