The Pursuit of God, AW Tozer, pp. 84-86.Faith is the least self-regarding of the virtues. It is by its very nature scarcely conscious of its own existence. Like the eye which sees everything in front of it and never sees itself, faith is occupied with the Object upon which it rests and pays no attention to itself at all. While we are looking at God we do not see ourselves--blessed riddance. The man who has struggled to purify himself and has had nothing but repeated failures will experience real relief when he stops tinkering with his soul and looks away to the perfect One. While he looks at Christ, the very things he has so long been trying to do will be getting done within him. It will be God working in him to will and to do. . . .
When we lift our inward eyes to gaze upon God we are sure to meet friendly eyes gazing back at us, for it is written that the eyes of the Lord run to and fro throughout all the earth. The sweet language of experience is "Thou God seest me." When the eyes of the soul looking out meet the eyes of God looking in, heaven has begun right here on this earth.
Tuesday, October 06, 2009
Finding your way back
"Then she called the name of the Lord who spoke to her, You-Are-the-God-Who-Sees; for she said, 'Have I also here seen Him who sees me?" Genesis 16:13
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Tozer has something there. But as Andrew Murray pointed out (and as A.B. Simpson believed, from whom Tozer surely learned much from) a struggle is probably necessary in the life of Christians before they find the rest in God I think Tozer is referring to here.
Faith is on the object and not on one's self, but faith is lived out through the trials and struggles of life. Through the valleys and through everything (Psalm 23). Scripture reflects real people in real life, and while this quote from Tozer makes a point, I wonder if he fails in not helping us see it in terms of what we live through here.
Or maybe it's just me, and I'm jaded.
I think you must remember, Ted, that it is a quote from a larger work so that you do not take it out of context just because of my selectivity.
I think the take home point of this quote is that faith, first, last and always, keeps its eyes on Jesus rather than on itself.
I posted it for this reason alone - to encourage us all in times when we are discouraged or disappointed, that we must choose to keep our eyes firmly fixed on Him in faith that He knows what He's doing. Elsewise we become bitter or discouraged.
Susan, Thanks.
We can take passage in Scripture that I'm sure says the same kind of thing. It is so important to keep our focus on God through Christ and God's word. We're God's works in process. I was reading this morning of Jesus asking his disciples if they had no faith! (when he silenced the storm)
I get afraid of some of the "deeper life" teaching which seems to want to forget about the struggle that's involved in sanctification. I spent years around that teaching and for the most part I'm wary of it, right or wrong. Though I do believe we're called to be holy and to love God and others, and that there's no excuse for us not to be obedient and growing in those areas.
Again, thanks.
Excellent quote.
"-blessed riddance." Amen.
Our faith doesn't make the truth be the truth, the truth of Christ is truth; it's a fact.
I believe Him, and His Word.
I don't believe in my believing in Him is right.
Thanks for the good post Susan.
That's how change happens - by gazing at God.
2 Cor 3:18... I recently heard John Piper say that trying to change ourselves in any other way leads to legalism
cool - just notice that you were on my blog...while I was posting a comment here. :-)
ESI - that is SOOOO the truth - legalism in the worst way!
Hah - I'd tell you to switch to facebook but I have to go stop and experiment and then I finally get to go home!!
This post and thread reminds me of the ropes course I went on years back. Some 30 feet high, the first year when I got to the top I was terrified when I looked down. Went across one rope and fell at least once doing so. Then got down.
Next year I determined NOT to look down. I did the whole ropes course without falling (falling would have been a good test, and not sure I would have passed it!) because I refused to look down, but instead concentrated all of my focus on the ropes and their trajectories, etc.
An analogy, and imperfect as all analogies are, but this reminds me of our walk of faith now. In this part of the new covenant in the days of our humiliation in following Jesus as we see through a glass darkly and know in part, we need to make all the more effort to keep our focus on Christ, just as Hebrews 11 and the first part of 12 points out to us, in this life.
Thank you Susan. Lovely posting.
I have just heard that President Obama has received the Nobel Peace Prize. Isn't that marvellous? You must all be so proud of him.
I'm not proud really.
Not sure what this man made prize is for. And why did Barak receieve it.
The greatest honor we receive from humans can be very fleeting. Not always, but it can be, because it's done to flatter, and done for political reasons.
The only man I can think of who may deserve this would be Martin Luther King. He was the real deal. I'm sure there are others, but so much phoniness in our day makes it a joke for me.
And there's really only one true peace anyhow. The peace the Prince of peace brings to a heart, and one day will establish in the New Earth when He returns.
You always get me thinking Llama with your comments.
Thanks, and Lord bless you.
I do not doubt, Llama, that President Obama greatly desires peace. However, I think that the Nobel Peace Prize is generally given to someone with a significant (in substance) and lengthy pursuit of world peace. Our President is lacking in both, so many Americans are mystified as to why the prize was awarded to him.
Hopefully, in retrospect, it will be a prophecy that he lives out. While I agree theologically with Don, that real peace will not come until the Prince of Peace, comes back, it would be amazing if something could be done to help the millions of people trapped in the midst of violence - both here in our cities and across the world.
".. it would be amazing if something could be done to help the millions of people trapped in the midst of violence - both here in our cities and across the world."
The Gospel of peace does bring peace as well. I believe that.
"First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior,..." 1 Tim. 2:1-3
God desires that we have peace.
At the same time Jesus said, "“Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword." Matt 10:34
But our sure hope is that one day there shall be perfect peace and righteousness, with no more sin, strife, suffering, nor death.
Have a happy and restful Lord's day Susan.
"God desires that we have peace.
At the same time Jesus said, "“Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword." Matt 10:34"
Don, I'm just wondering what you mean by this. I'm not sure.
Surely you feel that Mother Theresa of Calcutta deserved the Nobel Peace prize?
I don't know what Jesus meant either Ted! He said a lot of weird things, like separating mothers and children etc. I never understood that either. However, just because I don't understand it, doesn't make it less relevent!
"For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And a person's enemies will be those of his own household. Whoever loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And whoever does not take his cross and follow Me is not worthy of Me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it." Matt 10:36-39
I think our Lord sums up what he means by saying he isn't bringing peace when He says: "..whoever loses his life for My sake".
Christ is "life" itself, and man is evil, and hates this life, but loves his own life. Here is the strife.
Jesus said in another place that we have to eat His body and drink His blood. Another deep saying of Christ, where many people left Him.
When one comes to Christ, and loses his life others are not going to like it, and it will cause division.
And the truth of this is quite evident.
And yet, at the same time, God's desire is for us to live at peace in this world, isn't it?
It's difficult to put both these concepts in our brains I suppose, but they are both true as far as Scripture teaches us.
Jesus also said to His beloved disciples: "My peace I give to you. My peace I leave you. Not like the world's peace." So there's a peace we can have ruling our hearts, which is the ultimate peace, which an unbeliever can never know, because he doesn't know the Prince of peace, the One who made peace by His death on a Cross.
Llama, Jesus' words can be deep for sure, and we need to pray that we would understand them; for His words are truth, and they are life and joy. Our depraved minds are the problem, not His perfect words of grace and love and truth, which are written for us in the Holy Writ.
have a great day.
When one comes to Christ, and loses his life others are not going to like it, and it will cause division.
And the truth of this is quite evident."
I agree Don. Thanks.
The sword Jesus speaks of is metaphorical as is evident by his following words. Faith in Christ does divide households, and indeed literal persecution has come out of it.
I agree, Llama, that Jesus' words are not always easy to understand. We can only begin to understand, or at least have hopes of understanding as we seek by faith to follow. We must by faith turn our lives over to God because of Christ and what he has done for us in providing us the way of salvation through his death and resurrection. And in this world that does often result in conflict and persecution.
"I agree Don. Thanks."
Lord bless you and your family Ted.
And though there will be strife, there can also be great unity in the cause of Christ.
"They will know we are Jesus' followers by our love for each other."
My goodness yes, we do have to walk by faith and not by sight, don't we!! Good thing that Scripture tells us that this is what we need to do or I'd think I'd missed the boat somewhere!
For sure. Thanks, Don.
I want to word this better about turning our lives over to God. I like the way Ed Dobson describes it in his new book, "The Year of Living Like Jesus":
"One night, as an eleven-year-old in Northern Ireland, I was upstairs in my bedroom at 46 Martini Ave. It was a Sunday. I got down on my knees by my bed and asked Jesus to take over my life. My father, a pastor, spoke often at a church about asking Jesus to take over your life. He never forced it on me, but he told his congregation frequently that every human being had to either accept Jesus or turn their back on him. He would often say- and, in fact, Jesus himself said it- that Jesus was the way to God and came into the world to reconcile us to God."
I'm not sure I go along with you there Ted. I am not sure whether it is an all or nothing scenario.
Some people are much further along the spiritual road than others. I know I stumble and fumble along, but persevere.
Other people are well on in their spiritual journey, but I suspect most people feel they are just setting out, and because they are not totally convinced and in tune with the Bible, doesn't mean that they reject Jesus. They just have further to travel. Well, that's how I see it.
Getting back to Obama, I heard on the radio today that there is a small, but quite vocal group in America that wish to see Obama's downfall, whatever the price, even if that means taking America with him. Do you know of this group?
"Do you know of this group?"
Not really. But there are those who are speaking out against too much government. And basically they want to keep their freedoms, which the State is taking away.
We are still very free compared to North Korea, or Cuba, but we surely could become like these other nations some day, if we don't use our God given freedom to protest for our freedom.
One example is that the majority of Americans would like prayer and God in schools; and this is a citizen run country.
But the government decides no, and so in 1968 prayer was excluded from the government schools.
That is tyranny.
Here's a good quote on the matter:
"...how can we keep the government we create from becoming a Frankenstein that will destroy the very freedom that we establish it to protect? Freedom is a rare and delicate plant. Our minds tell us, and history confirms, that the great threat to
freedom is the concentration of power. Government is necessary to
preserve our freedom, it is an instrument through which we can exercise our freedom; yet by concentrating power in political hands, it is also a threat to freedom." -Milton Friedman
Have a nice day Llama.
It's a difficult one, that about religion in schools.
Turkey, which is a Muslim country, forbids girls to wear the headscarf to school. They feel that school is for learning academic subjects and religion should be taught in the home.
This group Donsands, was said to be so opposed to Obama that they want to see his downfall, even if it takes the whole of America down the pan with him.
"This group Donsands, was said to be so opposed to Obama that they want to see his downfall, even if it takes the whole of America down the pan with him."
That's crazy.
America is a mixed can of nuts.
There are a lot of fine citizens still here though, who honor those who gave their lives for their loved ones, and fellow citizens, so that we could have a nation that was free from tyranny.
I like to think the freedom we have in the USA is a blessing from our Lord, and surely "the Lord giveth, and the Lord taketh away. Blessed be the name of the Lord", is my bottom line.
I can't understand why you think that being obliged to have religion in schools constitutes "freedom". I would call it indoctrination.
Better to have more good quality science, in my opinion.
Certainly we have good quality science where my Andrew is teaching. Alas, they are in Virginia and I am here - and it is COLD here.
Hey, I'm going off Obama!
I have just read that he is refusing to see the Dalai Lama at the White House on the grounds that it might upset the Chinese.
Shame on you Obama to treat such a good and holy man like that.
"Faith is the least self-regarding of the virtues. It is by its very nature scarcely conscious of its own existence. Like the eye which sees everything in front of it and never sees itself, faith is occupied with the Object upon which it rests and pays no attention to itself at all."
Boy, Tozer sounds a lot like Martin Luther! I think this is very encouraging stuff. This dovetails with what Bonhoeffer (himself a confessional Lutheran) writes in Life Together pp. 20-21 (?), that the Christian lives not by his own subjectivity, but by the Word of God. The Word of Law speaks him to be a sinner, even when he doesn't feel like it, and the Word of Gospel speaks him to be forgiven and justified in Christ even when he doesn't feel like it either.
As for the other lines of comments on here, I think giving Obama the Nobel Peace Prize was really groping. He's been in office but a few months and has done what? Anything? Concede to every other nation's desires about what U.S. foreign policy should look like?
"I can't understand why you think that being obliged to have religion in schools constitutes "freedom"."
It was the norm for the American culture to have prayer and the Bible in school.
I'm simply saying since America is a nation by the people, of the people, and for the people, and the majority wanted prayer and such in school, then for the leaders in the nation to deny it is tyranny.
It's similar to King George ruling Britian way back when.
That's why the Colonies had a Revolution.
Apparently the prize is sometimes given as a political statement by the committee for what they HOPE that a person can/will do. I believe such was the case for President Obama.
Off to BSF - hope you guys enjoy your lesson tonight - we have fellowship so I baked brownies - made me miss you guys even more!
Don - although I know that this makes me way out of step with most of, lets see, what does Drew call them - professing evangelicals? - but I really don't care if we do or do not have prayer in public schools. What I do mind is that we are not allowed to be "we" - that it is forbidden for those who would choose to do so. I actually think it helped raise a culture of people who "believed" they were Christians because they grew up in a "Christian" country.
My British friends - I am so sorry that I do not know Brit history very well - but since you clearly still have a monarchy, have you ever had a revolution such as the Americans had against the British? I would be very interested to know why and how it ended up.
OK - off to Bible study.
"..but I really don't care if we do or do not have prayer in public schools."
I think I catch your vibe there Susan.
A nation that honors the Lord and respects His word, and honors Good Friday as a day of no work is a nation that could be at least pleasing in His sight, and so He protects and blesses such a nation.
Though this nation is not the Church, nor God's people, but of course there are many of God's people in this nation that honors Him, whether it be America, Britain, Tibet, China, Israel, Iran, or Nepal.
The Church is God's holy nation where he resides, and where His Holy Spirit is sovereignly adding to the Church daily those who are being saved for the Father desires for people to worship Him in Spirit and truth, and He desires for His Son to be glorified and made famous in all the Earth.
Some good thoughts Susan. thanks for sharing. Lord bless the Bible study. Amen.
John - first miracle, cleansing of the temple. It was good!
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