So often in the Christian faith we are required to just take things on faith. I am very aware of that as I start my first full week in a job that is not yet official. I am present in the laboratory; I am working on work; my supplies and books bear evidence of habitation. There is the appearance of "official", but is it really? Will the paperwork come through and back date this month's work to make it official or will something happen and I will realize it was only an illusion? Only time will tell and until then I must work by faith that this is what I am supposed to be doing and trust that, in time, things will right themselves in the paperwork world of bureaucracy.
This certainly reminds me of other areas of my life where I walk by faith and not by sight. Actually, it has been a great real life example for me of late as to not only the requirement that we walk by faith and not by sight, but how hard it is to do so. It also is a reminder, however, that things can appear one way when they are not that way at all. Sometimes things have the appearance of good but they are not; they are false, deceptive and evil.
Reveal to us loving, gracious and merciful heavenly Father those things on which we rely that are really false and deceptive. Fill us with your truth; help us to see our spiritual condition through Your eyes and not be deceived by "a way that seems right" (Prov 14:12; 16:25).
246 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 246 of 246Craver,
I have to stand on what I just said. Scripture over and over again particularly in the prophets and in Jesus addresses God's concern for the poor and oppressed.
Abortion is never singled out, though it was at least present in Jesus' and Paul's day. It is no less evil, but other evils are addressed, and we must address them all.
Thank you very much, Andrew from Florida. And I am very glad as well to know that I have misunderstood. I should be glad for a more clear explanation of you intents and purposes if you would like to offer one.
To All - it is cold here where we are in Michigan and my Andrew's grandmother is dying, so it is a sad visit. We have been to the hospital to see her again today and now his parents are there. Do lift us all up in prayer, especially that we would know how to comfort those who are grieving over the loss of this much loved one.
Fine. Address them all. Care about everything and everyone. I'm not saying that you can't do that. But we're talking about electing politicians, right? Elected officials are not omnipotent, and their values will not be a perfect representation of yours. Knowing that they cannot possibly do it all, we are forced to put somebody in office that will neglect one area or another. Given the choice between fiscal mediocrity or infanticide, my conscience mandates that I prioritize the right to life. Choosing between _______ (fill in the blank) or abortion is a real choice that is forced upon us, and any candidate who says that he can be fair to all is just trying to get into office, but I am not gullible enough to believe such a claim.
Susan, I just saw your note. I'll be praying for your whole family.
Susan,
May God wrap his arms of comfort around you all, and may you continue to be an instrument of his grace and peace there.
Will be praying!
Craver,
Yes indeed. We have to weigh everything in the light of our understanding of God's revelation to us in his kingdom in Jesus.
It's tough, and again we Christians are going to disagree at times, even though in reality the core of our concerns overlaps to a significant extent.
Thanks, brother for all you offer here, and for whatever else you may have to offer.
Thanks to all, and above all to God for his grace to us all, evident in the good, civil, and most importantly Christ-like debate and discussion here today.
I must get other things done for now, finally getting finished a project on the computer down here.
Blessings!
I shall pray Susan.
They were called back to the hospital about an hour after we returned home this afternoon. Thank you all for your prayers.
"We should end up saying much of what Don and you say within all that needs to be said" -Ted
On that note, I completely agree with you, Ted, that what President Bush did by promoting war was horrible, and I'm not even thinking of the death toll as much as the fact that targeting our wars exclusively against Muslims\Muslim nations has been devastating for the advancement of the Kingdom of God. Now Muslims the world round hate missionaries much more—not because of the Gospel but because they are American, or even because they are white. It has devastated missions among Muslims for all western missionaries. Honestly, Bush has closed the door for western Christians to minister the Gospel among Muslims, and that door is not going to open (Muslims haven't forgotten the Crusades yet, they sure aren't going to forget this!). The only Christians who will be making a difference among Muslims in the future will be non-Western Christians, and we have George W. Bush to thank for that. And the Gospel is a more important issue than anything else.
"If we allow the murder of babies today, what's next? Old people? People who are unable to generate sufficient income? ....what about if someone happens to be "undesirable" by virtue of ethnicity or attributes?" -Craver
This is the slippery slope we are on. And this is why I agree with Don that abortion is a holocaust and why I equate today's pro-choice movement with Nazism.
"..I equate today's pro-choice movement with Nazism."
Perhaps to a point Triston. But we must understand that we can never "broad-brush" ideas we might have.
That's what Islam does. They say America is Christian, and so they broad-brush the whole 300,000,000 people.
There are pro-choice people who are basically good people. Abortion is evil. People are in various levels, and degrees in understanding how evil it is.
Like that video you sent me bro. The one with Huckabee and Jon Stewart. Good video, and I was encouraged by Stewart's thoughts, who is a "pro-choicer".
I'm up late tonight. Good night.
Susan,
Please tell me if I'm wrong, but you being a female seems to be influencing your stand on abortion. At least that is the impression I've received from your past comments.
I like what this commenter said after the Huckabee\Stewart conversation on abortion:
"A woman does have the ultimate control of her body (not the government) but forfeits those rights once it involves another human life other than her own."
That comment is right on the money!
Craver, you can't seperate religion from politics. They are one and the same.
I remember the Archbishop of Cape Town, the good Desmond Tutu saying once 'I am puzzled which Bible people are reading when they say religion and politics do not mix'
Luther, you blithely state that God wants war. How can you talk such bare faced balderdash!
I thought we were meant to be turning swords to ploughs etc.
Llama dearest
I love that quote about "which Bible". I don't think I've ever heard it. Yet such is the US that we seem to interpret our own constitution that the two things, religion and politics, shall be forever separate. Of course, here in the US it seems that most people think that religion must be separate from all things, not just politics.
As to wars that protect freedom and peace - that's a hard call. Many have been justified and righteous and many have not. I'm not sure which comment of Triston's you are referring to, but it seems to me that he thinks the unrighteous wars that the US has entered in the past dozen years or so have greatly harmed everyone.
Triston
I'm sure that being female influences my thoughts on any number of issues. However, in the particular instance you ask of, it is my own past and that of countless women of my generation that I have known. It's rarely as simple as right or wrong I'm afraid. I love you brother, but I'm really glad that the Holy Spirit is more gentle than you are and that He put Rom 8:1 in the Bible.
"It's rarely as simple as right or wrong I'm afraid."
I'm not sure I understand, Susan. Do you mean sometimes abortion is the right thing to do? I'm confused.
93% of abortions are elective, neither the mother nor the child are in harm's way. Are ano of those 93% of cases right, or are the all wrong??
Lorenzo, regarding war, I was not thinking of modern times, only the times in the OT when God told Israel to go to war, that's all.
Susan,
I should have mentioned that pregnancy by rape is also included in that number. Only 7% of abortions are due to rape, or the health of the mother or baby. So, what does that say about the other 93% of abortions? Are any of those cases the right thing to do?? That’s my question to you.
What is the difference if when your Olivia was a child, she really upset you so much that you blew your top, pulled out a kitchen knife and slit her throat? Should we say to you compassionately, "We understand what you're going through, Susan. Olivia was a very difficult child to deal with." Or should we call your act a heinous crime of murder?
Abortion is the very same thing: parents murdering their own children. Am I wrong??
But amen on Romans 8:1. There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus, even for former murderers, like Moses, David or people who have committed abortion (if they become Christians).
Related to this issue, I believe, is a text from the book of Revelation. God's wrath and judgment will come on the people of this earth because, for one thing, "they did not repent of their murders" (Revelation 9:21).
What "murders" is the Spirit of the Lord referring to in this end time prophesy if not abortion????? I believe it is indeed speaking about abortion and peoples’ unwillingness to repent of all those murders. The wrath of God is coming because we justify abortion.
'Renzo, I personally would not call religion and politics "one and the same," but I think I have an idea of what you're getting at, and I would agree that you can't separate religion from politics. Not completely, at least. Whether a person is religious or irreligious, it affects their worldview, which in turn affects their politics. There is not a human being alive who can be perfectly objective, because so much is framed by our experiences, education and preferences and perspective.
Still... talking politics so often is a war of words that leaves a messy mountain of collateral damage. And after the last shot is fired, I seldom think it puts us ahead of where we started from.
Anyway, that's this person's opinion on it. :-)
About war. Whether 'just' or not. Does it not say in the Bible, 'do not repay evil with evil'.
Killing is wrong, whether it is an unborn baby, a soldier in Afganistan, a burglar or a dog.
Lorenzo,
Sad how you lump all those things together, as if they were actually equal. Do you think dogs and and babies are equal or should one be esteemed much higher than the other?
Thank you for that point, Litl-Luther. I was beginning to answer when your comment came through, and you make a good point.
Furthermore, the Bible does not condemn "all" killing. Killing animals for food is certainly allowed. The regular killing of animals (sacrifices) was laid out as a strictly observed, and crucially important part of the lives of God's people. Capital punishment was mandated by God's law, and God even sent his people to war.
The thing the Bible condemns, is murder. "Unrighteous killing." And killing an animal is certainly never equated with killing a person.
Drew's grandmother passed away on Sunday evening. We arrived back in Chicago Monday night. Drew and Olivia will drive back next Sunday afternoon for a Monday memorial service. Thank you for your prayers.
Cryptic and confusing.
That sums up my understanding of your previous comments, Susan. I really did not understand them. It would be great if you would shed light on what you were actually talking about.
Very sorry, Susan.
We will continue to pray for the family.
Goodness gracious, Triston.
Susan has made it clear that she is not pro-choice. Her comment, to me was not cryptic at all! And she is just as hard on sin as any of the rest of us.
I read it as saying that the choices by these women involve matters that are not black and white to them at all. That it is a most difficult decision for them, because while they would have the baby, they often don't have the support needed, or even worse. That some sort of wrong may be staring them in the face if they have the child. That's the way I interpreted it. I never thought for a moment that she might be condoning pro-choice.
I have learned over the years to much better- read the best into what people say. I could only feel compassion for the women Susan mentions in her comment, as well as for anyone who has had an abortion -and there are many women in our churches, who never have revealed that- one dear lady in our own church who shared it a few months back to our church body.
I'm not saying, Triston, that you or others here don't feel compassion for those women. because I'm sure you do!
I wish I wouldn't have used "goodness gracious," Triston, as I don't mean to come across demeaning of you at all.
By "demeaning" I meant I didn't mean to put you down at all. The dictionary definition of it, I just saw does not quite fit what I meant.
I am really tired of you, Ted, being the voice of Susan. It doesn't matter to me what you think she meant. I don't care what you think she meant or that you think you understand her completely. Much she said was cryptic for me. I'm not asking you Ted to explain Susan's words. I don't want to hear what you think she meant, Ted. I am wanting to hear from Susan.
A fair statement, Triston.
I don't mean to suggest I can answer for Susan. :/
And I hope whatever she may say will be separated from what I've said on this blog (I would think so!), including my own comment on what I believe she meant.
:)
I apologies for being rude, Ted. It's just I don't find third-person-divining helpful. I am wanting, rather, to hear firsthand from the source.
I should think so too Luther! Ted and Susan consistently come across as polite, compassionate, tolerent and they put up with a lot of shit from people like us.
There was no call to slam into Ted like that. Ted is the sort of person that will convert people by his humanity and love, not by blustering and blagging about.
When I was going on about murdering that dog, although I think you did a truly dreadful and horrible thing, of course I don't equate it the same as 'murder', but I think you can tell a lot about a person by watching how they treat animals.
Sure animals have to be killed to be eaten, although I am a vegetarian, but I understand the need for some people to eat meat.
But as Maalie says, you use the Bible to mean what you want it to mean. You don't sacrifice animals now at the temple (as far as I know) and I know you will bang on about Christ coming means you don't have to do that any more, but where exactly does it say that?
Jesus says do not kill, but you all condone the wars we have got ourselves into.
You don't follow all the laws of Leviticus, I bet you do work on the Sabboth, I bet you wear clothes made of mixed fibres, I bet you don't leave part of your fields for the gleaners, I bet you shave, etc. etc. etc.
Be real, why don't you?
Triston,
I don't really think you had to apologize. You were expressing a frustration, and I really did not take it personally. But, thanks.
Dear Lorenzo,
Thanks. I have my moments, too.
I'm really short on time, and that will be the case all day today. But near the end of my break right now.
On the Bible, a person has to read it in context, and when doing so will see that Jesus plainly is both the fulfillment and climax of the Story as to where it's headed next. So the old acts were necessary for the entire play, but the act we're in now is different, so to speak. As we look forward to the final act when as C.S. Lewis said, the real story will begin!
Kudos to Ted and Litl-Luther for reconciling.
'Renzo, part of the reason there is no more animal sacrifices (even for today's Jewish people) is that there is no more temple. Those were supposed to be performed on a holy altar, which was destroyed long ago.
The letter to the Hebrews is rich with explanation. I think of Hebrews 10:5-7.
Maybe it would help to describe the 66 books that we call the Bible... as one story. (By "story," I mean the telling about something - not story in the fairy tale sense.) When we understand it as a whole, and learn to recognize the scarlet thread that runs throughout, it is easier to understand the purpose of things like animal sacrifices, and the fulfillment through Jesus Christ. We learn about why the people of Israel had to be separated, but then how the gentiles can be grafted in by grace.
War is a more difficult topic to answer, as Ted and I will not be in agreement on this. We have talked about it before, and it should probably be answered separately.
Ted, when I have said that one should read the Bible in context, I have been shouted down!
If you believe in every word of the Bible, then surely you should follow the rules? I don't believe every word of the Bible. I think a lot is story, parable and allegory. But that is my opinion, and 'where I'm at' at the moment.
I wouldn't want to argue the toss as we believe what we can believe, and that's an end to it!
However, I do feel that if you belong to the 'club' you should abide by the rules.
Craver, I was actually aware that Jews don't make sacrifices any more as there isn't a Temple to sacrifice in! I was married to a Jew for 19 years and I learned quite a bit. However, Christians don't worship at the Temple,so in theory, we should still be making sacrifices?
I wouldn't anyway, because I don't believe in killing. Does it actually say in Hebrews that we don't need to make sacrifices any more?
Off to the docs. now. My hands have got infected again and I need some antibiotics.
Poor Llama! Have you been digging about in the garden without gloves on your little hooves again? I do hope the doc was able to set it all right as rain!
Just come back from docs.Susan! This doctor doesn't think it is infected excema, but some sort of fungal infection. I asked him if it was 'athlete's hand' and he looked a bit bemused and said, well maybe!
No treatment though. He took a bit of skin for analysis though. It isn't half sore. Maybe I should wear gloves on my hoofs!
Yes, I think some salve and gloves for you hooves would be just the thing! I think you need some lovely ones though, flowers and such.
Poor Llama. I hate fungal infections; they test my patience.
Hi Lorenzo,
You asked about the book of Hebrews. It does say we don't need to make animal sacrifices any more. The writer of Hebrews quotes the Old Testament text: "I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel." And then the writer goes on to say "In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away." (Hebrews 8:13) He is speaking about the Levetical covenant given to us by Moses (read the context and you will see that is exactly what he is speaking about). And so, it is clear that the Levetical sacrificial system has become “obsolete”. Of course Jesus confirms this same true every time we read in the Gospels where He said "This is the New Covenant in my blood..."
Hebrews also tells us: "For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins." (Heb. 10:4) "But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation. Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption." (Heb. 9:11-13) If you were to follow this whole section of Hebrews (especially chapters 8-10) you will see that his whole point is that the Levitical sacrificial system is unnecessary, and in fact, have no power to remove sins and furthermore that Christ's sacrifice is far superior, making the OT sacrifices obsolete. In fact, if you follow his logic, he tells us that for those who turn away from Christ "no sacrifice for sin remains but a certain fearful expectation of judgment" (Heb. 10:26-27). A lot of people use this text to try and show that Christians can loss their salvation, but they are actually getting off point from the writers main point: Which is that Christ's sacrifice is the only thing that can take away our sins, and to look anywhere else (ie. to look even to the Levitical sacrifices) is to look for God's judgment because forgiveness of our sins cannot be found outside of Christ and His sacrifice.
Does that answer your question, Lorenzo, about sacrifices?
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