A little bit ago, we were discussing the origin of evil. Actually, we had quite a lively discussion!
I ran across this sentence in AW Tozer's Knowledge of the Holy, that I think expresses what I was trying to say so very much better than I ever could, I wanted to share it with you.
From the chapter, The Justice of God
"Everything in the universe is good to the degree it conforms to the nature of God and evil as it fails to do so."
What it took me a post and several responses to say, he has said perfectly in one sentence!
For I am not ashamed of the Gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes...
32 comments:
And as it fits into the plan of God, or not, into the will of God or not.
I guess his sentence does comprehend what I add here. Certainly the world is, just as Scripture says, not in line with God revealed in Jesus.
I'll have to read that chapter in that book of Tozer soon, to remember how he handles the justice of God. A big theme in Scripture.
Certainly even the terms or thought of good and evil come from a view of inherent worth in the world of things. We believe the concept of right and wrong is grounded in a creator who holds us accountable to a moral law. Even if our understanding of that law is flawed.
Gotta love those one-sentence people. How do they do it?
LL - I wish I knew, because my tendency is so towards the other direction!
The apostle Paul was a one-sentence person, too, but that is because he so often failed to put a period and would turn one sentence into a whole chapter!
Lit'l Luther, So true. Ephesians as I recall is a prime example of that, but I'm sure it's evident in other places as well. And he would sometimes stop at mid-sentence to say this and that, then go on later, at least in one place.
I guess a good question would be, "What is the nature of God?"
I suppose we only need to read Tozer's book to see. That is a classic and a book every Christian should have, "Knowledge of the Holy".
Greetings from Vienna to Halfmom and all her readers!
Halfmom, only six comments? You should be more controversial!
Do you think there is a difference between evil and runcibility?
Or yes Maalie - there is quite a difference. I think, in a male, I might just call runcibility "boyish enthusiasm", and not a bad thing at all.
I love Tozer's writings. It's so true - it is God who defines what's right
Amen! GOD defines what is right! Well said, e.s.i!
I agree with Maalie. You need to be more controversial Halfmom. No one is biting—not even a nibble!
PS: Susan, don't be offended, as I typed in your last name above all I could think of was those two mother's fighting over the one living child and what they would have been if Solomon had gone through with his judgment and divided the child: Half-Moms :)
I think I remember learning as a child that "God is love". Is that still true, or is that one of the things they just tell kids?
Ted:
>Even if our understanding of that law is flawed.
You know, I shall never understand why and omnipotent almighty everlasting heavenly father (who knows everything from before the beginning of time until after the end of time) should make such a silly mistake as to make himself less than clear as to how we should understand the law.
I guess he might have deliberately introduced variability into the population so that some were too dumb to understand the law and were thus doomed to hell fire and brimstone.
LitlLuther - actually, in a sick way, that is kind of funny.
Especially since Maalie has, more than once, used the term "solomonian" in regards to some of my comments!
Never Maalie -
for God is consistent in character - perfectly consistent, just as He is perfectly and consistently holy and perfectly and consistently just and perfectly and consistently loving - and a million other things.
And those are just ways, attributes we use to describe Him because we are so limited in our human minds that we cannot comprehend who He really is.
We also know that he has made it clear that it is not his desire that any should ever perish but that ALL should come to everlasting life with him in heaven.
I'm so glad you are safely home from your travels - we all will look forward to your postings on Vienna!
Susan, so glad you received Stone Crossings! Sorry it's keeping you up at night. :) I look forward to your thoughts and impressions... feel free to share over on the Stone Crossings blog, where I can more easily go on about the book without feeling like I'm changing the Seedlings conversation.
Love to you,
LL
>for God is consistent in character - perfectly consistent, just as He is perfectly and consistently holy and perfectly and consistently just and perfectly and consistently loving
Well, quite honestly, I can't see where you get that from. When I look around the world, all I can find is inconsistency to the point of perversity.
Do you say that because you have been told it is true, or from the evidence of your own experience of the world?
Maalie,
The problem of our understanding lies with us. Not with God. So that is another reason we need God to help us see what actually is wrong and "sinful." Left to ourselves we are lost. We need the Good Shepherd, who goes after the one sheep that is lost. And we all get lost sometimes, including believers.
But we need to believe that God revealed in Jesus is for us, and for the world, and that in the end God will make all right, and all things new. And that God wants to begin this not in our lives,the beginnning of that. That God wants to do this work of new creation on this old creation even now, and through us.
But God must begin this good work of his in us first. But it's never meant to stop there.
I think I meant God wants to do this first in us. Would be nice if I proofread, plus I'm a bit tired. Can't drink caffeine p.m.'s as I've been doing then not sleeping that well.
But good to hear, Susan, that you're having a great time reading L.L.'s book. I read it on a Saturday, and will start blogging through it weekly, chapter by chapter beginning Wednesday.
Evidence, of course, my dear Maalie - always follow the evidence; it demands a verdict!
I don't think I wasn't being controversial enough - I think you were just out of town - it's you they love to talk with. I think I just serve as a moderator!
When I look around the world, all I can find is inconsistency to the point of perversity
if that is true, then how to you follow the inconsistent evidence to something so structured as evolution/natural selection?
I shall never understand why an omnipotent almighty everlasting heavenly father should make such a silly mistake as to make himself less than clear as to how we should understand the law
you might say the same thing about the Founding Fathers of the United States. not sure how familiar you are with the US Constitution but there's typically quite a bit of fighting as to how it is understood. :)
and, again, the problem lies not in the original content or intent of the author but in the interpretation of it's readers/followers.
i'm sure many parents have had the same incredulity at the apparent inability of their children to follow simple and clear rules that are only set to help the child. however clear the rules it's inevitable that the child will wander.
similarly it is incomprehensible how people of science could look at our world and see it as flat, especially since the available evidence was the same then as it is now - only their capacity to understand it was more limited then than now.
our ability to comprehend God's law is more limited now than i believe it will be some day. hindsight is 20/20, but as with people of science - there is progress in how we understand things.
i bet it took him a year to write that sentence. :-)
now let's see how long it takes me to read through these comments you have here...
i have not ever read the book by a.w. tozer.
but i really like the one by l.l. barkat!
>follow the inconsistent evidence to something so structured as evolution/natural selection?
The evidence only appears inconsistent in so far as it is incomplete. This is the most widely used fallacy perpetrated by the creationists. Because something hasn't been found, or isn't currently understood, doesn't mean it won;t be eventually. You need look no further than the genetic code to explain in beautiful simplicity with which anything you want can be explained. Arguments for personal incredulity are not arguments.
you might say the same thing about the Founding Fathers of the United States.
Are you joking? So far as i understand history, the Founding Fathers di not purport to be omnipotent. An omnipotent creator would have got it right first time. No ambiguity.
there is no ambiguity in God or His revelation Maalie - only in our pitiful attempts to understand what He has clearly revealed in nature.
Hello me old mate!
How are you doing! I hope life is treating you fine.
Sorry I have not had much time to blog since winning the $95,000,0000 on the lottery but now I am down to my last $84,999,999.53 I should have more time to spare!
Byeee
The following comes from the 'The Institute for Creation Research' (Maalie's favorite spot on the web :)
Researchers have recently “ruled out a hypothesis” that has been taught as dogma in schools, colleges and universities worldwide: the cause of the Permian extinction, allegedly “the mother of all mass extinctions.”
Geologists and paleontologists state in a recent article in Nature Geoscience that at the end of the Permian era—which they calculate occurred some 250 million years ago—“95 percent of marine species and 70 percent of land species were wiped out.” Called the “Great Dying” by some researchers, it is difficult not to think of a cataclysmic event, such as a global flood (Genesis 6 – 9), when reading of such massive destruction.
Regardless, evolutionary scientists have taught for decades that this Permian extinction event was precipitated by gradual oxygen starvation of the world’s oceans. This supposedly led to a massive die-out of marine life due to “clouds of hydrogen sulphide” rising from the seas.
Now many scientists are stymied as to what caused this devastating event, but Flood geologists have an idea: massive flooding, possible asteroid activity, and large-scale volcanism. History records such a catastrophic event in Genesis 7:11.
Indeed, many scientists are coming closer to the truth when they rule out clouds of hydrogen sulphide and look approvingly at “an impact, or series of impacts, by an asteroid.” Granted, this is not the Flood, but such bombardments probably did occur at this time. In fact, many geologists now agree with creation scientists that earth did experience a worldwide cataclysmic event. Take note of this shift from a position that does not fit the facts to a more reasonable scientific understanding—sudden cataclysm(s) such as asteroids or even a “fierce period of volcanism,” which happens to fit historical accounts found in the biblical record.
Of course, researchers in creation science continue to follow the evidence where it leads, and little by little, Darwinian scientists committed to evolutionary dogma are beginning to confirm what we’ve been stating all along.
Let's all head over to Martin's house, lay out a white handkerchief and do a 'Mr. Bean dance' for pocket change, before he runs out of cash!
Litl-Luther - you'll love Martin's site if he's posting again - I need to go over myself. He's quite funny - wickedly so sometimes! and quite delightful as well.!
Hey sexy suzy, thanks for the plug!
Hic! must remember to put milk instead of vodka on my cereal in the morning... hic!
Byeeeeeeeeee
'sexy suzy' .... blush.... sorry .... I forgot where I was for a minute ...
Bad martin, get back in you kennel!
I think you better delete that last comment because you fellow blog readers may think I am a bit silly!
A bit?
Hey! There I am leaving a comment on your blog and I get back to my blog and there you are leaving a comment on my blog just like I have been leaving a comment on your blog, so we were both leaving comments on each others blogs, you were leaving a comment on my blog as I was leaving a comment on you blog! What are the chances of you leaving a comment on my blog as I leave a comment on your blog happening again.
Do you understand what I am trying to say?
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